[Note: if you came here directly from Mr. Jager's site or elsewhere, you have avoided my warnings on content. I sincerely do not want to threaten anyone else's belief system. If you have rigidly held religious views and are incapable of discussing your beliefs rationally or if the beliefs of others could cause you serious agitation or discomfort - PLEASE TURN BACK NOW!]
These pages were last updated on 1/26/2003.
Church, State & Atheism
This page is written in response to an interesting website I stumbled across. The website is http://www.mindspring.com/~wjager and represents at least a couple of efforts by Bill Jager. One of those is to present photographs and information about Alaska - and for that purpose, I can offer a whole-hearted recommendation. Another stated purpose is to promote church-state separation (you actually have to go one layer deeper - the first layer just offers you a choice of how to experience the Alaska parts of the site). The site also has both a personal view of atheism and lots of links to "free-thinking" / atheism / etc.
Welcome
The odds are at least 9 to 1 that you reached this page through a link on Mr. Jager's site because his site generates more traffic than mine. Regardless, you appear to have an interest in church/state separation and/or religion/atheism. Information and opinions on this site are presented solely as food-for-thought.
General Statement
Mr. Jager and I agree on the natural beauty of Alaska and the need for church/state separation. I don't even have a problem with his documenting that people have abused religion - he makes valid points that religious fervor combined with governmental power or community indifference can lead to abuse. I took issue with his strong, negative comments about all religion - not just because the comments are only valid (if they are valid at all) as they apply to small subsets of religion but because I think they weaken his arguments on church/state separation. I still think that there are people who might be inclined to be persuaded by this arguments and experiences who will be turned off by the heavy-handed approach to religion.
My original responses (d)evolved into a logic- based approach that attempted to show that atheists commit similar acts of unreason to push their (un)beliefs. I've come to realize that I want to debate an atheist about as much as I want to debate a Christian fundamentalist + literalist - which is to say not at all (perhaps even less, because the Christian and I would at least have a common language). I prefer to just offer a different way of looking at religion.
Responses
and
A different view of religion...
The latter attempts to show that being religious does not mean that you are superstitious, suffering from a mental illness, close-minded or intolerant. In fact, I believe that Christianity in particular (and spirituality in general) offers a much more peaceful and sane way of dealing with reality than atheism.
In addition, I address a variety of related issues here...
I am leaving up my previous efforts because Mr. Jager has responded to some of them and because it shows how thought can evolve and change.
Obsolete Replies
A general response is here: Hiding Behind Reason.
Previous responses to Mr. Jager's website are divided into into four pieces:
Why Church / State Separation is Crucial
Attempting to Argue Responsibly - Holding Atheists and Theists to the Same Standard
Responses to Atheist "Proofs" and Thought (under development)
Some Thoughts for Doubters - do you find Atheist thought somewhat persuasive but remain
open-minded? Want to know how a random Christian responds to strongly worded attacks?
Mr. Jager has responded with http://www.mindspring.com/~alutiiq/meme.html. My replies are here.
This is all prefaced with the following disclaimers:
Mr. Jager has experienced deplorable treatment by
those who disagree with his religious views and his belief that as an American -
he is entitled to hold different beliefs. This is embarrassing as an
American and as someone seeking to be religious. On the other hand, I do
not cease to be American because I disagree with the current administration -
nor do I cease to be religious because some of those who claim to be religious behave abominably.
Americans who do not understand that others have the right to any religious
beliefs (or lack thereof) disrespect the Constitution and those who fought and
died for it. The USA they imagine has more in common with Nazi Germany and
the USSR than it does with the country imagined by the founders of this country.
A Christian who reacts with hatred to those who disagree with him ignores Christ's message and would do well to re-read the New Testament. I would be glad to recommend specific sections to anyone who needs assistance.
email me at doug@hardts.net